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Nightheal
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PostSubject: Paladin Tank   Wed Dec 21 2011, 23:10

Credits go to Sinhunter

Protection Paladin PvE Guide
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Ok so I decided to make one. I'm not going to copy paste ANYTHING, but I also won't make it too big with explanation of what every spell does in detail. This guide is for people that actually do have common sense, and CAN play the game but need help with figuring out how to tank with a paladin. I'm also not going to give any wowhead links to items or anything. I'm sure that if you want to find out a little more about given spell/item, you can go to wowhead or wowpedia.

Talents and Glyphs

These are the talents and glyphs I currently use.
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Got all the goodies in Prot and some extra crit and damage from ret. Also Seal of Command is needed in some situations when you're tanking multiple enemies. I can also make links to several different specs that are also good, but technically it's just a matter of personal preference, and the kind of stuff that you would rather have.
Getting Divine Sacrifice and improving it is also not a bad idea if you'd like to be useful when the whole raid takes a lot of AoE damage.
You can also skip getting reckoning because the amount of extra threat it provides for 5 talent points is really not all that great. It would be more useful if you are using a slow weapon, but since all tanking weapons are fast nowadays it's not really great.
Also, you can choose to get 5 points into "Seals of the Pure" in holy instead of the crit chance in ret, but technically critical hits generate more threat than seal procs.
Another valid choice is taking 2 points in "Pursuit of Justice" in ret. This talent is great for ANY spec. I don't take it because I don't really move much when I tank. If I do move, I usually backpedal, so speed increase doesn't change much there.

Now, for the glyphs. The change to Avenger's shield is awesome for main tanking. Avenger's shield is a great way to generate lots of threat at the start of a fight or to get the attention of a mob that's a bit far away. Without the glyph it can be used to pull several mobs at the same time, but in some cases that's not what you want. It's still a matter of preference, but in my opinion, having the glyph is better.
The other glyphs I use are self explanatory.

Rotation
To be honest, a pally only needs to turn on Righteous Fury and press buttons that do damage. Do this and you shouldn't have any threat issues.
The only part that you REALLY need to pay attention of in your rotation, is keeping Holy Shield up 100% of the time.

You should use Seal of Vengeance when tanking a single target, and use Seal of Command when tanking multiple enemies.
The judgement you use isn't that important. If you are the only paladin in the raid, you should use Judgement of Light. If there's other paladins, try to notice which one they are using and try to fill in the gap. Don't use Judgement of Justice tho.. it's a pvp thing.

If you really want to be on the top of your game, I suggest you use the 96969 rotation.
Basically, there are abilities that have a 6 second cooldown and abilities that have a 9 second cooldown. The rotation just keeps you busy all the time and keeps your Holy Shield up 100% of the time while generating tons of threat.

So what you do is:

Click on divine plea, Open with Avenger's Shield, Holy Shield, POP WINGS, Shield of Righteousness, Judgement, Hammer of the Righteous, Concecration, Shield of Righteousness, Holy Shield........................ you get the idea.

Gear, Gems and Enchants

First and most important thing as a tank, is to become uncrittable. You achieve this by getting 540 defense (not defense rating, but the actual Defense which is 400 if you're naked)

I could go into an in-depth analysis of stats to show you which stat is better and when to stop stacking a certain stat so it get's less affected by diminishing returns, but I'm not going to do that. If you really want to crunch numbers or find out more about stats and how they affect all tanks or maybe perform some interesting mathematical calculations, then by all means go to wowpedia where everything is explained in detail, or google some guides or blogs written by the best tanks on retail.
One thing I'd like to mention is hit rating. It's very good to be hit capped so your taunts don't miss. A lot of tank items have hit rating on them, so I doubt you'll be very far from the cap which is 6%. Don't use hit rating gems!! But keep it in mind when deciding between an item that has +30 parry rating or another item that has +30 hit rating.

On magic-wow, in ICC, most of the bosses do little physical damage and have high-damage spells. ICC also has "Chill of the Throne" that reduces chance to dodge by 20%. All this put together means that getting avoidance stats is bad, so stack stamina. Use 30+ stamina blue gems in ALL slots, and the reduce spell damage taken meta gem. Also use the same strategy for enchants. 22 agility or 16 defense on back, and mongoose on weapon.

Addons and other useful stuff

I was going to put download links to every addon I was about to list here, but giving you the names is enough. You do know how to use google rite? hmmm maybe I'll add links some other time if I feel like it.

Omen3 - Threat meter. A MUST HAVE for EVERY tank.
Any raid frame addon - I use Xpearl myself because It's clean and small. It doesn't take a big part of my screen.
DeadlyBossMods - Tells you WHAT happens, WHEN it will happen and WHO will it happen to in EVERY encounter. Extremely useful addon for anyone that ever tries to enter any kind of instance.
TankPoints - an awsome addon for tanks. Useful for making decisions about you gear, gems, stats and everything. It also adds 2 different categories to your character interface which show you how good of a tank you actually are. There's a lot of usefulness in this addon but it's mainly for those of us who like to play around with stats and numbers.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - This is an addon that tells you which button you should press next, removing the need to think about your rotation. It displays an obvious little window which shows the next 2 buttons you should press.

Also, there's certain macros that are useful in some situations. You can do a lot of amazing things with /cancelaura
Using bubble to get rid of some nasty debuff, cancel it right away and taunt to get the boss back on you.
Removing Righteous Fury when the OT needs to taunt.

I'm sure there's other useful macros u might want to use but I can't think of any more right now. If I think of anything later, I'll just edit.

One more thing I'd like to recommend for your UI is to keep your view completely zoomed out. This enables you to see as much of the battlefield as possible so you can react fast to anything that happens (mobs spawning, AoE spells etc.) There is no reason for a tank to get tunnel vision. All ur doing is standing there and pressing buttons. Rotation is pretty simple and constant so it becomes completely mechanical. This means that you should be paying full attention to what's going on at all times, which brings me to another point.

MOST IMPORTANT PART ABOUT BEING A TANK
is knowing and understanding the scripts. This means that you have to know what's happening in the fight 100% of the time. Paying full attention to the fight is a must for every tank. Quick decisions and good reflexes are also needed as well as a good sense of positioning and general awareness. These things are 95% of what a tank is. The other 5% go to gear and talents.

So that's it. I didn't want to spend hours writing a wall of text with colorful links and detailed explanations about every little thing.
Besides, if you have at least leveled a paladin to 80, or played this game with another character before, you should be able to understand everything in this guide and use the simple information here to your benefit.

Now, go tank so I can dps in raids!!!!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Credits go to Naids


This macro gives you unhittable, avoidance, and how far above/below 540 defense you are.
Code:
/run local b,d,p,r,a=GetBlockChance(),GetDodgeChance(),GetParryChance(),GetCombatRating(CR_DEFENSE_SKILL) a=1/(.0625+.956/(r/122.9625)) ChatFrame1:AddMessage(format("Unhittable: %.2f%%  Avoidance: %.2f%%  Defense %+.0f rating",b+d+p+5+a,d+p+5+a,r-689))


Soft Block Value Cap
80(your level) x 34.5(block value) = 2760 <- this is soft cap
If u overstack it Shield of Righteousness stops gaining damage from it.
There is no hard cap for block value. You can still increase the blocked damage over 2760.


Enchants
Mongoose if you want to look cool, Blade Ward if your rich, Lifeward if your poor or Black Magic if you are an idiot. Also you can spend 31 vote point for 50 stamina on weapon (Titanguard)


Addons
Tidy Plates Neon/Tank, you'll se how useful it is when your gonna tank many mobs.


My spec:
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Akriti
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PostSubject: Re: Paladin Tank   Tue Dec 27 2011, 03:48

but in tragic wow there is some bug of tank that if tank get over 660 Def, then tanks get like 1 out 10 attacks of any boss means 90% dmg reduction or w/e

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chibai
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PostSubject: Re: Paladin Tank   Tue Dec 27 2011, 04:02

And if you have over 700 def, you can be the 25th on damage taken list at LM trollface
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Sinhunter
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PostSubject: Re: Paladin Tank   Tue Dec 27 2011, 06:31

(Insert random shitty comment about defense stacking)
trollface.jpeg
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Evo9
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PostSubject: Re: Paladin Tank   Tue Dec 27 2011, 06:32

Like the fact that you generate about 0 threat cause the boss doesn't hit you?

Or the fact that it's exploiting and a massive crutch to cover up how big of a fuck up you are in life?
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PostSubject: Re: Paladin Tank   Tue Dec 27 2011, 07:58

Evo9 wrote:
Like the fact that you generate about 0 threat cause the boss doesn't hit you?

Or the fact that it's exploiting and a massive crutch to cover up how big of a fuck up you are in life?

y u mad bro?
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Naids
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PostSubject: Re: Paladin Tank   Tue Dec 27 2011, 17:10

Pala have to use items with bonus(green) armor.
Gems: Stamina/agility
No more avoidance tanking since TOC
Defense stackers are exploiting miss chance and most of them doesnt even know what is avoidance tanking. Real avoidance tanks does not stack defense.
Now, all back to armor/hp tanking!!!
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Evo9
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PostSubject: Re: Paladin Tank   Tue Dec 27 2011, 17:29

I'm not really mad, I'm just making a point: 98% of the people that defense stack think they're actually good at tanking. When, in reality, they don't really know shit. Protip: most of the damage in ICC is magical damage. Meaning, no matter how much combined avoidance you have, you aren't going to be taking any less magical damage.

Tanking isn't about having the best gear. It's about knowing how to keep threat, and knowing the boss encounters inside out. Tanks, over any person in the raid, need to know what's going on at ALL times. If you don't know how to react when something screws up, you're going to wipe your raid.


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big_sids

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PostSubject: Re: Paladin Tank   Sat Dec 31 2011, 09:59


Well i am a balanced tank what i think. mayb my stats are not the optimal but the i think
threat generating and spell damage things are diferent.

i differ that if the boss cant hit u he wont have agro. im sure it wont say "fuck this guy i cant hit him.. lets kill someone else.."

i dont know any in depth threat calculation things, but as far as i have Experienced.
right fury + any abilities gives u enuf threat. which i see on my threat meter.
the damage done by a pala tank is v.good and the righteous fury just makes it so easy.

another thing which lead me to the threat conclusion was.. usualy in pvp.. as a holy pala..
if i am healing hard with righteous fury on.. there is no gargoyle.. mage image. hunter pet or
dk pet who will NOT come attacking me.. just buy casting flash of lights i manage to keep agro of the pets..


and yea i was looking forward to change my stat priority to stamina.....
NOT AT ALL because i have threat controling probs.. but Definetiley becasue of the spell damage.

well for warr tanks mayb its diferent i dont know...
my conclusions are on the bases of purely experience on the field only and i dont know much about game in-depth mechanics...

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Akriti
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PostSubject: Re: Paladin Tank   Sat Dec 31 2011, 10:10

there is many problem occurs when a tank is purely def

1. The tank doesn't generate enough threat which leads the loss of agro

2. In icc many bosses are spell caster so there no need to abuse def



as per i have experienced i have a def tank and have seen i have lost my agro many times so i m strictly agree with Evonine

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Sinhunter
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PostSubject: Re: Paladin Tank   Sat Dec 31 2011, 11:11

In this guide I never mentioned threat problems. Any person with a keyboard + fingers/feet/face can keep threat with a paladin. Problem is the spell damage which can not be avoided.
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Adorim
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PostSubject: Re: Paladin Tank   Sat Dec 31 2011, 13:05

SINHUNTER PRO PYCC RUSSIA STRONG MAN !
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chibai
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PostSubject: Re: Paladin Tank   Sat Dec 31 2011, 13:39

FU ALL I am def tank AND stam tank
Therefore your argument is invalid

I used to lose agro, but then i took arrow to the knee.
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Evo9
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PostSubject: Re: Paladin Tank   Sat Dec 31 2011, 16:10

chibai wrote:
FU ALL I am def tank AND stam tank
Therefore your argument is invalid

I used to lose agro, but then i took arrow to the knee.

And then you still suck as a tank.
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Akriti
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PostSubject: Re: Paladin Tank   Sat Dec 31 2011, 16:20

jaja trollface
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philosofi
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PostSubject: Re: Paladin Tank   Sun Jan 01 2012, 06:45

Quote :

Tanking isn't about having the best gear. It's about knowing how to keep threat, and knowing the boss encounters inside out. Tanks, over any person in the raid, need to know what's going on at ALL times. If you don't know how to react when something screws up, you're going to wipe your raid.

+1

p/s i used to tank 5mans instance. can i count as vpro oso? jajajajaja
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philosofi
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PostSubject: Re: Paladin Tank   Sun Jan 01 2012, 06:46

oh forgot to mention, i ToTT vhard!!!!
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philosofi
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PostSubject: Re: Paladin Tank   Sun Jan 01 2012, 06:47

oh fuk i forgot to mention tis oso.. i missed sin tanking in raids.. am i sounds horny?
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Akriti
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PostSubject: Re: Paladin Tank   Sun Jan 01 2012, 07:29

yes it seems, ur too much horny Gaysofi
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chibai
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PostSubject: Re: Paladin Tank   Tue May 15 2012, 14:34

With tank, you'll be parried unless you have like 40 expertise (or somewhere around that)
When boss parry, they got some extra haste and will attack quicker for 1-2 hit.
Tank had no choice but to attack from front. Any advices?
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PostSubject: Re: Paladin Tank   Tue May 15 2012, 15:19

Go with dodge instead of parry, and also avoidance tank not so great.
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chibai
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PostSubject: Re: Paladin Tank   Tue May 15 2012, 17:09

No one would stack 45 expertise anyway.
With sindragosa it's even harder to keep agro without expertise. That, and seems like 7 stack of debuff for tank is too much for a pug healer

Avoidance is for lm / fest >.>

Quote :
Although Hit and Expertise are ‘good’ stats you should never gem/enchant for them. Every other tanking stat is more useful. Most of your threat is from magic damage. Missing a white auto attack won’t affect your tanking in any noticeable way.

The glyph of SoV is the only expertise you should go out of your way to get. The rest will come naturally is of little concern to tanks.

A guide from somewhere. 10 from glyph + 6 from talent is enough they said. No need for leg t10 I said.
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Evo9
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PostSubject: Re: Paladin Tank   Tue May 15 2012, 18:53

Uh, that's on the contrary... you should be expertise capped, because as a Paladin tank, you generate aggro through holy damage (hence Righteous Fury). Now, let's review how we deal holy damage:

Major Source: Seal of Vengeance. How to apply SoV? White damage.
Other Sources: Shield of Righteousness, Hammer of Righteous, Judgements, Avenger's Shield.

So, IMO, yes, being expertise capped is important as a tank. Considering our most consistent source of aggro is from SoV, and that can ONLY be applied through melee hits. Reckoning is a useful talent to have (not "THE" talent, but definitely something you should consider investing in).


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chibai
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PostSubject: Re: Paladin Tank   Tue May 15 2012, 20:01

You could say I'm just finding excuses not to redo my gear/ gem, meh.

Apart from t10 legs or LK25hc sword which come with expertise, there's always [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] (5 expertise) or [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] (6 expertise)
So SOV (10) + talent (6) + food+elixir (11) = 27

If there's no food/ elixir available, there's always expertise gear for tank. But probably most of us didn't roll for that in raid thinking expertise won't be fixed ever in mwow.

Also this is why I purely stack defense gem and not combination of dodge/parry
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I only use this gear for high end boss, but seeing we won't do any LK run soon, I'll just DE it later
Also with rog ToT + hunt MD, there's no real problem holding agro. Got a good ss of that
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big_sids

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PostSubject: Re: Paladin Tank   Wed May 16 2012, 00:05

if bosses are parrying you. reckoning can turn out to be bad too if u do not have enough expertise.. its like ur reckoning procs and ur char goes like MOAR HITS RAGE.. and if those so many extra hits are getting parried frequently.. u are basicaly helping the boss generate extra white hits to.. so its like parry-dodge should be balanced and if u have reckoning then you should go for a good amount of expertise like the value chibai gave, 27
well there are beter talents then reckoning anyways.. and @ evo.. we have 4 meele "abilities" they are good enuf if we have nice hit rating.. they are not white hits so Np. dont need to cap for white hits anyways
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